Forum Eerste Wereldoorlog

[Tandorini]

Een oud artikel uit 2003:

The Red Baron is instantly identifiable with World War I. His all red triplane is synonymous with chivalrous knights of the air gallantly fighting in the skies over France. In reality the Red Baron was Rittmeister Manfred von Richthofen. A Prussian of noble lineage who became the most effective, the most feared and ultimately the best known exponent of air combat in the Great War of 1914-1918.

The memory of Richthofen has been mythologized in modern media. Unfortunately his death has received the same treatment. The mystery generated by mass media has surrounded his death. This was due to the uncertainty of the events in the last hour of his life. This mystery has led to disputes, past and present, over who actually shot Richthofen down. The issue in 1918 was handled in a secretive manner by the Royal Air Force. To the point that speculation and rumour replaced documented fact.

Historians such as Floyd Gibbons, Pat Carisella, Dale Titler and Charles MacDonald have studied in depth, the final day of Manfred von Richthofen's life. More recently Norman Franks and Alan Bennett published, "The Red Baron's Last Flight". In the light of this recent publication and their authoritative research, it is timely to ask the question again; Who killed the Red Baron?

Lees verder:
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/12/25/13258/202

[Tandorini]

Het wrak van zijn vliegtuig.



De stoel uit de Fokker Dr I van von Richthofen. ( verzameling Royal Military institute)

[Pegoud]

Blijft een fascinerend mysterie, Tandorini. Bijzondere foto van die stoel ook, kende ik nog niet.

Gr P
_________________
Wie achter de kudde aanloopt, sjouwt altijd door de stront.

[Tandorini]

The Death of Manfred von Richthofen

It is now eighty years since Baron Manfred von Richthofen, Germany’s greatest WW1 fighter pilot, was shot down and killed over the Australian lines in the Western Front in France on 21 April 1918.

Captain Brown, a Canadian pilot in the Royal Flying Corps, flying a Sopwith Camel single seat fighter, was known to have attacked von Richthofen and he was officially credited with shooting him down, eventually receiving a bar to his DSC for the feat. Brown’s claim to have shot down von Richthofen was immediately contested by the Australians because von Richthofen had flown at a very low height directly over their lines and had been fired on by Australian anti-aircraft machine gunners, as well as by many Australian soldiers.

The controversy as to who was responsible for shooting down von Richthofen has continued over the years. C E W Bean, the author of the Official History of Australia in the War of 1914 to 1918, carried out considerable research into the death and devoted an Appendix, in Volume V of the Official History, published in 1935, to describe the circumstances in detail (1). Bean was of the opinion that Sergeant Popkin, an Australian Vickers machine gunner, was responsible for shooting down von Richthofen and that Captain Brown had not fired the fatal shot.

There have been many books and articles published since then on the subject of who was responsible for shooting down von Richthofen. Most authors agree that it was an Australian, but disagree as to his identity, however Markham, (2) as late as 1993, did not consider that any Australian was responsible and wrote an article re-attributing the death of von Richthofen to Captain Brown.

This present paper will refer in particular to two books. DaleTitler (3) published a book agreeing that Australian machine gunners were responsible but considered that Gunner Robert Buie, firing a Lewis gun, shot down the German triplane. Carisella and Ryan (4) disagreed with Titler, and supported Bean’s opinion that it was Sergeant Popkin who was responsible.

Lees verder:
http://net.lib.byu.edu/~rdh7/wwi/comment/richt.htm

[Tandorini]

Vaux sus Somme, dinsdag 21 april 1918

Richthofens formatie vloog op een behoorlijke hoogte, waarschijnlijk op 7000 voet, en ging de strijd aan met een formatie van onze eigen vliegtuigen. Er was een luchtgevecht en plotseling maakte een van onze RE8-vliegtuigen een snelle duik naar 150 voet, gevolgd door Richthofen. Hij haalde onze kist snel in en beschoot het met lichtspoormunitie. Iedereen in de wijde omtrek met een machinegeweer opende het vuur en dat maakte een ongelooflijke herrie. Plotseling haperde Richthofens machine, maar hij herstelde zich en het leek alsof hij weg wilde vliegen. Hij maakte een draai om zijn as en stortte met een geweldige klap neer en lag totaal in puin.
Het duurde even voordat de machine kon worden benaderd want de vijandelijke artillerie, die het vliegtuig ook had zien neerstorten, legde een spervuur rond deze plek. Ze gingen daar een halfuur mee door terwijl Richthofens formatie vier of vijf keer overkwam en ten slotte majestieus wegvloog. Dat was het requiem voor deze onverschrokken en ridderlijke krijger. Toen onze mensen bij het toestel kwamen ontdekten ze dat Richthofen door hoofd en hart was geschoten. Hij droeg papieren bij zich dus we wisten precies wie hij was.
Onze Royal Air Force was snel ter plekke; het wrak en het lichaam van Richthofen werden opgehaald en later die dag is hij met militaire eer begraven. Zijn persoonlijke spullen werden later naar de Duitse linies overgebracht en afgegeven samen met een condoleance boodschap van de Royal Air Force.

Generaal Sir John Monash, Australian Infantry Force.

Uit: Ooggetuigen van de Eerste Wereldoorlog
Uitgeverij Bert Bakker.

[GrafVonLiechtenstein]

Toen vijanden nog heren waren...

Nog een mogelijkheid... En we zullen het wel nooit weten zeker...?
_________________
mfG,

GrafVonLiechtenstein

[Tandorini]

Funeral of the Red Baron:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJUzIKeJJdY&feature=player_embedded#at=102

De stuurkolom van Richthofens vliegtuig (foto: Australian War Memorial):

[Tandorini]

WHO KILLED THE RED BARON?

PBS Airdate: October 7, 2003

NARRATOR: April 20th, 1918: In the skies over northern France, Allied and German fighter aircraft are locked in a ferocious dogfight. One of the contenders in this aerial battle is the legendary German ace, Manfred von Richthofen: the Red Baron. His distinctive red Fokker triplane is in hot pursuit over the Somme Valley; in its sights are two British Sopwith Camel fighters. First one, and then the second are swiftly eliminated by the deadly marksman. They are the 79th and 80th kills of the Red Baron's career.

Below, the Germans are engaged in a final, massive offensive to end the First World War. German troops and supplies pour into the Somme Valley in northeastern France. To counter them, British and Australian soldiers set up defensive artillery and machine-gun positions on high ground overlooking the River Somme. Part of their job is to watch out for German reconnaissance planes. Both armies need to know the position of each other's forces. This vital intelligence can only be gathered properly from the air.

Protecting German reconnaissance flights, Manfred von Richthofen, Germany's greatest ace, has brought his feared "flying circus" up to the front. Opposing them are Royal Air Force squadrons flying the Sopwith Camel, one of the nimblest fighters ever built. Both sides are flying airplanes vastly more advanced than the primitive machines at the outset of the First World War.

Verder lezen:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/3011_redbaron.html

Nog meer:
Inside the Red Baron's Mind
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/military/mind-red-baron.html

Americans Against the Baron
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/redbaron/americans.html

How Did the Red Baron Die?
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/military/red-baron-theories.html

[FORPUS]

Sorry,ik ben een leek op dit gebied maar het neergeschoten vliegtuig op de foto is toch geen triplane ?

[Tandorini]

Dit is wel degelijk het wrak van de Rode Baron.

[Tandorini]

Flying over the churned battlefields of the Western Front, the German pilot Baron Manfred von Richthofen quickly established a reputation as a skilful and deadly fighter.

His exploits captured the imagination of the German public, and were feared by Allied pilots. By mid-1917 he had been awarded Germany’s highest gallantry award, and commanded a fighter wing known as “Richthofen’s Circus”, after its practice of painting aircraft in a range of bright colours and patterns. Destroying 80 allied aircraft in air combat, he was dubbed “the Red Baron”, after his own distinctive red Fokker Dr1 triplane.

Fatally shot in combat over France on 21 April 1918, he crashed his aircraft near Australian lines.

This flying overboot was salvaged from von Richthofen’s aircraft by a recovery party from the 3rd Squadron, Australian Flying Corps. The party also recovered von Richthofen’s body, the aircraft’s control column, scraps of fabric and the aircraft compass. It is thought that von Richthofen originally acquired his overboots from a British pilot he had shot down.

The boot is made from narrow sections of deer pelt, sewn together in vertical strips. It is one of a number of items associated with the last flight of the Red Baron in the collection of the Australian War Memorial.

verder lezen:
http://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/the-red-barons-boot.html/attachment/untitled-305

[silentknight]

Vorig jaar op discovery nog een recent gemaakte reportage gezien.
Staat ondertussen ook op youtube in 3 delen.
Zeker de moeite om te bekijken.
Er wordt met de modernste technieken (lasers, vliegsimulaties...)getracht te achterhalen wie hem zou neergeschoten hebben.

Deel 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USDZRARjkIU&list=HL1360352601&feature=mh_lolz
Deel 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK9qcWWBEvo
Deel 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcE1A6hoagE

[Pegoud]

En het bekende en frustrerende probleem hierbij dat de Lee Enfield, de Vickers mittrailleur en het Lewis machinegeweer allemaal .303 munitie gebruikten. De definitieve waarheid zal wel op het slagveld blijven.

Gr P
_________________
Wie achter de kudde aanloopt, sjouwt altijd door de stront.

[Tandorini]

Oud artikel uit 2008:

I came across a number of first and second hand accounts of the death of Baron von Richthofen whilst I was examining various Private Record Collections in the Memorial’s Research Centre. They made for interesting reading since the events of 21 April 1918 have long been the subject of many enthusiastic debates in the history of the First World War. I have reproduced below for interest some extracts of the letters, diaries and memoirs I read. They have all been written by Australian Flying Corps personnel and describe their recollections of what happened the day the Red Baron flew his last mission.

The material does not express the Memorial’s viewpoint but embodies the attitudes of the period in which it was created. The text remains as written.

Verder lezen:

http://www.awm.gov.au/blog/2008/02/06/who-killed-the-red-baron-2/

[Finnbar]

Een kleine verzameling foto's over de Rode Baron en zijn dood vind je op deze Facebookpagina (er staan ook een paar foto's van zijn lijk bij...)

[Tandorini]

Mystery of who killed the Red Baron is finally solved: Final moments of fearsome German flyer are described in an eye-witness account that has come to light after almost 100 years


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3277958/Mystery-killed-Red-Baron-finally-solved-Final-moments-fearsome-German-flyer-described-time-eye-witness-account-come-light-100-years.html

[Tandorini]

Is this proof an Australian soldier shot down infamous WWI pilot the Red Baron? Fuel tank from German ace's bullet-riddled plane is discovered gathering dust in a Melbourne museum.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5272943/Mystery-famous-war-death-deepens-fuel-tank-found.html